The Very Quiet 2nd American Revolution

From Family Security Matters.

The Second American Revolution Has Arrived…Very Quietly


Recent scandals involving the IRS, NAS, spying on the media, bungling Benghazi and all the rest are hardly good news for the Obama administration. But, even more troubling is that these incidents are part of a larger, half century-long pattern undermining the national government. No, we are not anticipating our version of some "Arab Spring." Nor is this a crisis requiring immediate attention; rather, the problem is more encompassing though barely visible, one captured by the old Chinese expression-- death by a thousand cuts. Let me explain.

Let's begin with the idea of legitimacy. Legitimacy means that government's decisions are accepted since the exercise of power generally accords with accepted procedures and political values. Such acquiescence to government's authority is unconscious and habitual-you obey Washington's edict because it is "the right thing" to do. Such national legitimacy is hardly universal. Elsewhere, e.g., Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq and much of Africa, primary loyalty is to kinship groups, religious or tribal leaders. The central government exists largely in name only and absent popular support, it must depend on force or bribery to govern.

How does government lose legitimacy? The American Revolution illustrates the process. Until about the 1760s the colonists were British, not "Americans." Loyalty was to the Crown; laws were freely obeyed since Parliament properly enacted them and properly appointed Royal governors administered them. Slowly, however, a distinctive "American" identity grew and, of the utmost importance, British rule grew illegitimate, tyrannical. Obedience to London's decrees was no longer unconsciously accepted. The shift was imperceptible but inexorable: John Adams did not go to bed on Monday loyal to George III and wake up Tuesday a revolutionary patriot. It took thirty plus years but it did happen.

How this erosion of legitimacy occur? The Declaration of Independence explains this severing of ties, a death by a thousand cuts. Some excerpts:

He [King George III] has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

The catalogue continued, but the message was clear---though systematic misrule and incompetence the government in London lost legitimacy and thereby unworthy of obedience. To be sure, no government is perfect but, as the Declaration announces, a moment arrives where officialdom is so incompetent, so subversive of the public good and so contrary to the peoples' unalienable rights that it forfeits popular support. Again, illegitimacy comes not from a few abuses or bad laws; it arrives from a long string of abuses to the point where reversing the evil seems fruitless; something new is required, fixing the old order is futile.

Why might a contemporary Declaration-like bill of particulars be necessary? A few possibilities:

Washington has imposed crushing debt for purposes beyond its legal authority while corrupting the currency.

Washington has illegally expanded its authority to areas once reserved for local and state rule and without any corresponding benefits.

Washington has issued so many odious rules and regulations that we are now governed by unelected obscure functionaries whose oppressive whims have the full force of law.

Washington has forcefully sought to transform society to achieve "fairness" in ways that contravene human nature and the widespread failures of such ill-advised schemes only beget greater coercion.

Washington has proven ineffective in defending our borders from those who would enter illegally only to become public burdens.

Washington under the guise of compassion has caused millions to fall into permanent, irreversible dependency in which food and shelter are no longer personal responsibilities.

Washington has divided a once united people by insisting that its people be classified according to biological characteristics so as to reward and punish in ways that defy understanding.

Washington has corrupted democratic elections by making office seeking excessively expensive under the guise of "taking money out of campaigns"

Washington has illegally expanded its authority over an individual's natural right to decide his own physical well-being.

Washington has mocked our religious values and then defined upholding these cherished values as "hate."

No doubt, the troubling catalogue could be expanded along with myriad details, but the déjà vu should be apparent. And make no mistake, this misrule did not begin with Obama and will undoubtedly continue past 2016. In a nutshell, millions remain loyal patriotic Americans though growing uneasy about Washington's right to govern.

That said, no need to repeat the battles of Lexington and Concord. Times have changed. A more contemporary revolution-lite is more likely-civic disengagement whereby millions minimize contact with Washington. Examples include home-schooling, under-the-radar businesses paying zero taxes (and no Obamacare payments), off-shore banking for the wealthy, self-policing gated communities, relocating to friendlier isolated rural areas, even vigilante-like militias and commerce by barter. Further add ignoring laws deemed illegitimate, cheating on taxes or using the Internet to escape government imposed Orwellian political correctness.

It is, obviously, no accident that today's most vibrant opposition to Washington's misrule is called the Tea Party while millions arm themselves in anticipation that Washington will be unwilling and unable to perform its most basic responsibility, the protection of life and liberty.

What now? Recall an anti-War slogan from the 1960s-what if they gave a war and nobody showed up? Perhaps today's updated version should be-what if they gave a tyrannical central government and nobody noticed? In short, this Second American Revolution would be a personalized war of secession, a disengagement in which the current scandals are only the latest outcropping of a half century of tyrannical government mismanagement. Enough is enough.

What you’ll see in the rebellion

From Bob Owens.

(Hat Tip:  Doug @ Sondrakistan)

What you’ll see in the rebellion


Let me explain, gun grabbers, how your confiscatory fantasy plays out. Let us imagine for a moment that a sweeping gun control bill similar to the one currently suggested is passed by the House and Senate, and signed into law by a contemptuous President.

Perhaps 50-100 million firearms currently owned by law-abiding citizens will become contraband with the stroke of a pen. Citizens will either register their firearms, or turn them in to agents of the federal government, or risk becoming criminals themselves. Faced with this choice, millions will indeed register their arms. Perhaps as many will claim they’ve sold their arms, or had them stolen. Suppose that as many as 200-250 million weapons of other types will go unregistered.

Tens of millions of Americans will refuse to comply with an order that is clearly a violation of the explicit intent of the Second Amendment. Among the most ardent opposing these measures will be military veterans, active duty servicemen, and local law enforcement officers. Many of these individuals will refuse to carry out what they view as Constitutionally illegal orders. Perhaps 40-50 million citizens will view such a law as treason. Perhaps ten percent of those, 4-5 million, would support a rebellion in some way, and maybe 40,000-100,000 Americans will form small independently-functioning active resistance cells, or become lone-wolves.

They will be leaderless, stateless, difficult to track, and considering the number of military veterans that would likely be among their number, extremely skilled at sabotage, assassination, and ambush.

After a number of carefully-planned, highly-publicized, and successful raids by the government, one or more will invariably end “badly.” Whether innocents are gunned down, a city block is burned to ash, or especially fierce resistance leads to a disastrously failed raid doesn’t particularly matter. What matters is that when illusion of the government’s invincibility and infallibility is broken, the hunters will become the hunted.

Unnamed citizens and federal agents will be the first to die, and they will die by the dozens and maybe hundreds, but famous politicians will soon join them in a spate of revenge killings, many of which will go unsolved.

Ironically, while the gun grab was intended to keep citizens from preserving their liberties with medium-powered weapons, it completely ignored the longer-ranged rifles perfect for shooting at ranges far beyond what a security detail can protect, and suppressed .22LR weapons proven deadly in urban sniping in Europe and Asia.

While the Secret Service will be able to protect the President in the White House, he will not dare leave his gilded cage except in carefully controlled circumstances. Even then he will be forced to move like a criminal. He will never be seen outdoors in public again. Not in this country.

The 535 members of the House and Senate in both parties that allowed such a law to pass would largely be on their own; the Secret Service is too small to protect all of them and their families, the Capitol Police too unskilled, and competent private security not particularly interested in working against their own best interests at any price. The elites will be steadily whittled down, and if they can not be reached directly, the targets will become their staffers, spouses, children, and grandchildren. Grandstanding media figures loyal to the regime would die in droves, executed as enemies of the Republic.

You can expect congressional staffs to disintegrate with just a few shootings, and expect elected officials themselves to resign well before a quarter of their number are eliminated, leaving us with a boxed-in executive, his cabinet loyalists trapped in the same win, die, or flee the country circumstance, military regime loyalists, and whatever State Governors who desire to risk their necks as well.

Here, the President will doubtlessly order the activation of National Guard units and the regular military to impose martial law, setting the largest and most powerful military in the world against its own people. Unfortunately, the tighter the President clinches his tyrannical fist, the more rebels he makes.

Military commands and federal agencies will be whittled down as servicemen and agents will desert or defect. Some may leave as individuals, others may join the Rebellion in squad and larger-sized units with all their weapons, tactics, skills, and insider intelligence. The regime will be unable to trust its own people, and because they cannot trust them, they will lose more in a vicious cycle of collapse.

Some of these defectors will be true “operators,” with the skills and background to turn ragtag militia cells into the kind of forces that decimate loyalist troops, allowing them no rest and no respite, striking them when they are away from their most potent weapons. Military vehicles are formidable, but they are thirsty beasts, in terms of fuel, ammo, time, and maintenance. Tanks and bombers are formidable only when they have gas, guns, and can be maintained. In a war without a front, logistics are incredibly easy to destroy, and mechanics and supply clerks are not particularly adept at defending themselves.

Eventually, the government will turn upon itself. The President will be captured or perhaps killed by his own protectors. A dictatorship will form in the vacuum.

If we’re lucky, the United States of America, or whatever amalgam results, will again try to rebuild. If we’re very lucky, the victors will reinstate the Constitution as the law of the land. Just as likely though, we’ll face fractious civil wars fought over issues we’ve not begun to fathom, and a much diminished state or states will result, perhaps guided by foreign interests.

It will not be pretty. There will be no “winners,” and perhaps hundreds of thousands to millions of dead.

Yet, this is the future we face if the power-mad among us are not soundly defeated at the ballot box before they affect more “change” than we, the People, are willing to surrender to would-be tyrants.

The Federal Government's Plan To Control America's Masses

I think many of us continue to be shocked by the arrogance of this Obama administration and the Leftist controlled Congress and there's even a few of us out here that refused to be lulled to sleep or "numbed" to the control that this Federal government is attempting to wield over "We The People."

In this story, at Family Security Matters, some of the blatant acts and references to Federal control are pointed out and expounded upon. And it ain't pretty. From the article:

On March 23, 2010 Rep. John Dingell (D-MI), defended ObamaCare on WJR’s Paul W. Smith radio show out of Detroit. In response to a question posed by Smith, Dingell stated:

“Let me remind you this [Americans allegedly dying because of lack of universal health care] has been going on for years. We are bringing it to a halt. The harsh fact of the matter is when you’re going to pass legislation that will cover 300 [million] American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people.”

“Control the people”, sounds like something out the former USSR, does it not? Well, get ready Comrades as it only gets better.

We, the People, are simply and assuredly, under attack by our own government. It's my view that it has gotten to this point because of two reasons: 1. Elitist assumptions 2. Perceived tolerance.

Let me look at each of these:

1. Elitist Assumptions: We have an elite in this country right now, spearheaded by the most visible of the elite - Barack Hussein Obama. Obama and his elitist handlers and engineers actually BELIEVED that the people voted him into office as a rubber stamp of his radicalism. You see, those Marxist think tankers forgot that they hid the real story behind "Hope and Change." And so, with Obama's election, the elite have moved forward with an agenda that they truly believed the American people had bought into. The Obamacare issue was their first wake up call that there was significant pushback and that is where they have made their mistake - they gathered the elite in Congress, spearheaded by Nancy Pelosi, and made the decision to force the change on America like a fresh panzer division. Unfortunately for the elitists, they continue to think that they can spin their way out of all of this and there is STILL a percentage of these manipulators that firmly believe that America wants this transformation.

2. Perceived Tolerance: As the Obama administration and Congress pushed forward the alarmingly radical agenda, they kept a close watch on America and the reaction. Sure, there were rumblings with the Stimulus Bill but it subsided...then there was the Healthcare bill that passed in a bloody coup, but months later, the clamor had died down as Americans moved onto the next nuclear topic, that of Immigration. The Obama administration, along the way, tested the waters of reaction in America with such proposals as the KSM trial going public in New York City, by sitting on their hands regarding the Gulf oil spill, by taking over GM and Chrysler - all of these actions were used to gauge the country's tolerance level. Anf fortunately for the Administration and Congress, the outcry was controlled and limited. But the Marxists have made yet another error here, in my estimation. The American people are like a huge ass rubber band - we bend and bend and bend.....you can pull us one way quite a ways without that huge "snap." But there is a point. Yes, there is a point where that big rubber band will snap and let fly and believe me, no one in Washington, D.C. will want to see that.

Let's face it, though. There is a growing number of Americans who have given up - they have made the conscious decision that overall, they will be better off letting the Federal government take care of them - sure, they will lose most of their personal liberties but they will be fed and secure. And those people, those turncoats are just as much an enemy to this country as the Leftists in Washington, D.C. There is no trying to change their minds, they have fallen off the cliff, they have joined the dark side. They, along with their leadership ilk, can be ignored for the moment but the time will come when they will need to be dealt with or bottomline, we will be dealing with this attack on our country over and over again.

Government Control of The Masses?


On March 23, 2010 Rep. John Dingell (D-MI), defended ObamaCare on WJR’s Paul W. Smith radio show out of Detroit. In response to a question posed by Smith, Dingell stated:

“Let me remind you this [Americans allegedly dying because of lack of universal health care] has been going on for years. We are bringing it to a halt. The harsh fact of the matter is when you’re going to pass legislation that will cover 300 [million] American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people.”

“Control the people”, sounds like something out the former USSR, does it not? Well, get ready Comrades as it only gets better.

As you all know by now, on August 13 Obama hosted an Iftar dinner at the White House in celebration of the Muslim holiday Ramadan in which he said:

“But let me be clear. As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances.”

Now, of course the very next day Obama attempted to back pedal and clarify his words by saying:

“I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding.”

Funny, I thought he was pretty “clear” that both as a citizen and as president it was fine that a mosque be built at Ground Zero. But I guess, along with the greater percentage of the public, I misunderstood.

I need not discuss the backlash caused by that statement as it has been the topic of every news station, newspaper and magazine that I have seen since. I had even chosen last week not to write about it since everyone and their grandmother was doing such a fine job covering it.

Then last Tuesday House Speaker Nancy Pelosi weighed in with her two cents:

“There is no question there is a concerted effort to make this a political issue by some. I join those who have called for looking into how is this opposition to the mosque being funded, how is this being ginned up?”

Then, following in the footsteps of her boss, she also attempted to clarify her statements early the next day:

“I support the statement made by the Interfaith Alliance, that ‘We agree with the ADL that there is a need for transparency about who is funding the effort to build this Islamic center,’” according to Pelosi’s statement, quoting the Alliance’s position. “’At the same time, we should also ask who is funding the attacks against the construction of the center.”

But even with her “so called” clarification she still is asking “who is funding the attacks against the construction of the center.”

Have we reached the point in this country that now, even when average citizens voice their opinion, if someone in the government or administration doesn’t like it we get threatened with strong arm scare tactics? Is that not an attempt to “Control the masses”?

Pelosi now claims she was not referring to an “inquiry”. Then what the hell does it mean when one of the most powerful people in this country says “looking into how this opposition to the mosque being funded”?

Debra Burlingame, the co-founder of 9/11 Families for a Safe and Strong America issued a response the day after the Speaker made her comments that sums up how the 9/11 family members feel:

“For the last four months, 9/11 families, first responders, survivors and concerned citizens have been asking where developers are getting funding for a $100-million dollar mosque and Islamic center planned for Ground Zero. The imam who is heading the project has refused to identify the source of the $5 million cash that was used to purchase the building, and told an Arab newspaper that he will get funding for the project from Arab and Muslim countries. Given the imam’s statements, that America was “an accessory to the crime” on 9/11, that “Osama Bin Laden was made in the U.S.A.” as well as his repeated refusal to condemn Hamas, we believe he has an obligation to come clean to the public on his financial sources. Our concern has been amplified by news that the imam’s worldwide “Shariah Index Project” is being funded by the Malaysian government, and that he is a principal figure in the Perdana Global Peace Project, the number one funder of the Gaza Flotilla, a violent attempt to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza.

Today we learn that instead of taking our concerns seriously, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi suggested that the opponents of the Ground Zero mosque should be investigated. This comment is clearly intended to intimidate those of us who are speaking out to preserve the sanctity of Ground Zero, where more than 20,000 human remains have been recovered, 1,845 in the last five years. We can assure Ms. Pelosi that whatever funds we have spent to get our message out, they pale in comparison to the price we have personally paid since that day, and continue to pay as a result of the mosque project. The vast majority of the American people support us. They lived through September 11 with us, and they know, as we do, that this not a “local issue.” What happened on 9/11 affected all Americans.”

I know Debra Burlingame, we have spoken many times and she has been a guest on my radio show. She, like every other 9/11 family member had a part of her die that day and no one, no one can ever even put that in to a monetary figure.

Every person I know, excluding radio and television pundits that has spoken out against this mosque has done so using their own personal time, sweat and money, maybe Pelosi would like to look at my checkbook as well?

With all the staffers, advisors and experts that our representatives and the president have you think just one of them might have bothered to look at some opinion polls?

CNN: 68% of Registered Voters Oppose Mosque At Ground Zero

TIME: 61% of respondents oppose the construction of the Park51/Cordoba House project

Marist: Strong Majority in NYC Oppose GZ Mosque; Mayors #’s Plummet

Siena: 61% of NYC Residents Oppose Ground Zero Mosque

Rasmussen: Only 20% Support Ground Zero Mosque

TIME: More than 70% feel proceeding with the plan would be an insult to the victims of the attacks on 9/11

It would seem to me Mrs. Speaker that this is not “ginned up” and no one is making “a concerted effort to make this a political issue”. If you would bother to listen to the constituents and look at the numbers you would see that ALL groups heavily oppose this mosque regardless of their political viewpoints.
According to The Hill:

“A majority of all political groups polled oppose the mosque. Forty-three percent of Democrats support it and 54 percent say they are opposed. Eighty-two percent of Republicans are against the mosque, as opposed to just 17 percent who support it. A whopping 70 percent of independents are against the mosque, compared to 24 percent who support it.”

I guess the overwhelming majority of us had better get out our bank statements for big brother now, since we all seem to be in this conspiracy together.

Not one thing that I have ever heard or read by anyone on this issue has ever said that Muslims do not have the right to build or pray where they choose. No one has ever questioned the Constitutional right of religion regardless of the faith. What we have all said, just like I wrote about back in May, is where is the funding coming from given Imam Rauf’s terror ties?

And if, this is a big if, if, Imam Rauf says he wants to build bridges and is so into healing maybe he should consider that putting a mosque that close in proximity to Ground Zero has nothing to do with his rights, it is just that it is not right.

Maybe those in power should stop talking about looking into how the opposition to the mosque is being funded and start a real inquiry into the finances of the man with the terror ties, Imam Rauf.

Maybe they should use their political clout and help the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, the only house of worship that was destroyed when the towers fell. Now the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America has accused New York officials of stalling the reconstruction while the mosque near Ground Zero moves ahead.

According to FoxNews.com, assistant to the archbishop, Father Alex Karloutsos stated:

“We have people that are saying why isn't our church being rebuilt and why is there ... such concern for people of the mosque”? "Religious freedom" would allow a place of worship for any denomination to be built, but accused officials with the Port Authority of making no effort to help move the congregation's project along.”

Of course this Church was there prior to 9/11, it would make too much sense to help have that rebuilt.

I wonder… If a Greek Orthodox had hijacked a plane and flown it into the towers, would they now have a better chance of having the church rebuilt? I’m just sayin’.

Marxist Obama Administration Unleashes The FBI On America's Militias

Okay, most of you, by now, have seen the "story" out that the FBI cracked down on an extremist fringe militia in Michigan yesterday. From the story at Yahoo News:

The FBI said Sunday that agents conducted weekend raids in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio and arrested at least three people, and a militia leader in Michigan said the target of at least one of the raids was a Christian militia group.

But here's the rub people...from the same article:

FBI spokeswoman Sandra Berchtold said there had been activity in two southeast Michigan counties near the Ohio state line. She wouldn't say whether they were tied to the raids in the other states.

Get that? The fact of the matter is that the FBI swarmed militia members in not just two Michigan counties but in five U.S. states - Michigan, Ohio, Tennessee, Indiana, and Illinois. If you read up a bit on this so-called "Hutaree" militia, there is no way in hell that this group spanned across five states.

What we are looking at here, people, is a focused first element of a strategy by the Marxist dictator of this land, one Barack Hussein Obama, to take out the most armed and prepared opposition to his takeover of America. Okay, I know I'm gonna be called a kook over this post but as most of you know, I don't give a rat's ass about any label put on me.

Do any of you think it's just a "coincidence" that a mere few days passes by after the MSM blitzes us all with headlines of right wing extremist threats against Congressmen and Congresswomen following the healthcare vote? Do any of you think it is a "coincidence" that these raids by the FBI came down in five states AT THE SAME EXACT TIME? And do any of you think it is a "coincidence" that these raids, these arrests of U.S. citizens came at the very moment that Barack Hussein Obama had surprisingly jetted off to an unplanned visit to Afghanistan?

Okay, prediction time. This is just the beginning people. First prediction is that once the dust settles here after these first raids, the FBI along with the Department of Justice, will reveal some very "disturbing" information that was gathered in the raids that implicates a wider plot of attacks in America by other militia groups. That should come out in the next few days.

Second prediction is that by the end of this week, there will be more raids, in more states - supposedly called for due to the intel gathered in the first wave of raids.

Third prediction will be that we will see a Red Alert sounded across the militia network of America within the next 10 to 14 days.

It is my firm belief that Barack Hussein Obama has plans for the most revolutionary legislative action at the Federal level that has ever been witnessed in this Country. And he must have this legislation passed by the November elections and yes, I am insinuating that some of this legislation will indeed affect the November election process.

For most of my regular readers, you will agree that I am no alarmist, I am no conspiracy theorist. But the hairs on the back of my neck are up over this act by the Federal government yesterday. This doesn't smell fishy - it smells like a rotting corpse.

One last thing - I will welcome 100 comments in two weeks from now poking fun at me for being the boy that called wolf - believe me, I will relish being called out...because if this all happens, it will signal the most dire situation this country has ever faced. I do so hope I am wrong.

Official: Gun charges after FBI raids in Midwest


ADRIAN, Mich. – The FBI said Sunday that agents conducted weekend raids in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio and arrested at least three people, and a militia leader in Michigan said the target of at least one of the raids was a Christian militia group.

Federal warrants were sealed, but a federal law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity said some of those arrested face gun charges and officials are pursuing other suspects.

FBI spokeswoman Sandra Berchtold said there had been activity in two southeast Michigan counties near the Ohio state line. She wouldn't say whether they were tied to the raids in the other states.

FBI spokesman Scott Wilson in Cleveland said agents arrested two people Saturday after raids in two towns in Ohio. A third arrest was made in northeast Illinois on Sunday, a day after a raid took place just over the border in northwest Indiana.

George Ponce, 18, who works at a pizzeria next door to a home raided in Hammond, Ind., said he and a few co-workers stepped outside for a break Saturday night and saw a swarm of law enforcement.

"I heard a yell, 'Get back inside!' and saw a squad member pointing a rifle at us," Ponce said. "They told us the bomb squad was going in, sweeping the house looking for bombs."

He said another agent was in the bushes near the house, and law enforcement vehicles were "all over." He estimated that agents took more than two dozen guns from the house.

Michael Lackomar, a spokesman for the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia, said one of his team leaders got a frantic phone call Saturday evening from members of Hutaree, a Christian militia group, who said their property in southwest Michigan was being raided by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

"They said they were under attack by the ATF and wanted a place to hide," Lackomar said. "My team leader said, 'no thanks.' "

The team leader was cooperating with the FBI on Sunday, Lackomar said. He said SMVM wasn't affiliated with Hutaree, which states on its Web site to be "prepared to defend all those who belong to Christ and save those who aren't."

"We believe that one day, as prophecy says, there will be an Anti-Christ," the group's Web site said. "Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment.

An e-mail sent to the group by The Associated Press wasn't returned Sunday, and phone numbers for the group's leadership were not immediately available. Berchtold, the FBI spokeswoman in Michigan, said she couldn't confirm if the raids were connected to Hutaree.

Lackomar said none of the raids focused on his group. Lackomar said about eight to 10 members of Hutaree trained with SMVM twice in the past three years. SMVM holds monthly training sessions focusing on survival training and shooting practice, Lackomar said.

In Michigan, police swarmed a rural, wooded property around 7 p.m. Saturday outside Adrian, about 70 miles southwest of Detroit, said Evelyn Reitz, who lives about a half-mile away. She said several police cars, with lights flashing, were still there Sunday evening and 15 to 20 officers were stationed in the area.

Neighbor Jane Cattell said she came home from the movies Saturday night and a helicopter was circling above, its spotlight illuminating her house. She and her sister, Sarah Holtz, wouldn't say who lived in the home but said they knew them from riding their horses past their house.

"They're your average, nice neighbors," Holtz said.

There were rumors about ties to a militia, but Holtz she knew nothing of that from her interaction with them.

One of the raids in Ohio occurred at Bayshore Estates, a trailer park in Sandusky, a small city on Lake Erie between Toledo and Cleveland, park manager Terry Mills said. Authorities blocked off the street for about an hour Saturday night, he said.

"Needless to say, this has everyone talking," said Mills, 62. "We have a lot of retirees here who don't want all this commotion."

Mills said he didn't know the identity of the person arrested.

FBI agents in Ohio also made an arrest in Huron on Saturday night, Wilson said. No further information would be released until after they appeared in court Monday, he said.